shoebusiness
Premium Member
Posts: 26 |
Tue, Aug 03, 2010 18:45:53
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I have read several of the threads on this site about posting commercial based pictures. I understand (and agree) with forbidding this practice. However, I do have a question about using images that are public domain. I have encountered humdreds of incredible candid shots posted on photo-sharing sites...they are all clearly marked if they are copyrighted or not. I have contacted several of the people that posted the pictures and asked them to join our site and post their pictures here...and have yet to see one of them show up here. My question is, if the picture is public domain (non-copyrighted) is there an issue with posting them here? I don't want to steal credit for the shots...I just would like to see them posted on this site for everyone here to enjoy. Could we start a category for uncopyrighted web finds...or post them in our own profiles (I have no problem giving credit to the picture taker)? If they haven't copyrighted them, and posted them on picture sharing sites...they have to expect that they will be copied and used elsewhere...am I right?
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Shinonadebris
Member Profile
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Tue, Aug 03, 2010 19:55:59 |
Probably not OK to post them here, unless authorized by the owner of the pictures.
We will just have to take more great pics ourselves!
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Dr Jones
Premium Member
Posts: 258 |
Tue, Aug 03, 2010 20:06:03 |
Not wishing to split hairs, but all work created instantly becomes the copyright of the originator: a child's scribble, a TV series, a song, a book, etc.
So images in the public domain are still CR to the originator. To 'aquire' CR you don't have to actually do anything official - like registering it with an authority or something.
If the originator places pics, written works, etc in the public domain he/she isnt bothered whether or not anyone copies them. But he/she still own the CR
There are some teriffic images around, that's true. However, on balance, I'd side with HSS admin in prohibiting these pics with a blanket ban simply because it's easier to police (even tho in practice it seems policing a blanket ban aint that easy!).
I am not a lawyer, btw, but I believe my comments stand on solid ground, at least as far as the UK is concerned.
Best.
Dr J.
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keet_in_heels
Premium Member
Posts: 164 |
Tue, Aug 03, 2010 20:59:07
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The law as far as was and still is as far as I am aware is this. To copywrite you send yourself a copy in a sealed envelope registered post and keep it un opened if a dispute goes to court you take that sealed copy into courtThat is the law in the UK anyway goes for books recordings and anything else and you have to do this if you invent something and want to patent it.
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shoebusiness
Premium Member
Posts: 26 |
Tue, Aug 03, 2010 22:09:38
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I'm not a lawyer either, but I do have some knowledge on this subject. Even though copyright laws do protect the rights of the original producer of a tangible item...that person has to accept those rights, and indicate it on the tangible item. This is where my question comes in. On these photo-sharing sites, they offer the "artist" the option of copyright protection. All they have to do is check a box and the photo will say "copyrights reserved". If they elect not to reserve these rights, it clearly spells out to them in the terms of the site that the picture is public domain, and can be downloaded and reproduced. If pictures are found under these circumstances, why can't they be posted on this site? The copyrights have been forfeited.
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what a shock!
Member Profile
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Tue, Aug 03, 2010 23:01:40
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Simply put - because they are not YOURS! The site clearly states that images only which you own may be posted. Copyright is an issue - but there is more behind this reason than just copyright - for example, fun - which is what the site is about. Its very lazy for people to post pics they have found elsewhere. Also - any member on this site can go and find pics elsewhere on the net so why would you want to post them here? This site is for specific images taken by members, many of which are not posted anywhere else on the net, unless taken by someone else and uploaded elsewhere.
Yes the pics you speak of - Candid Shots are permitted as there is a category for them - providing they are taken by YOURSELF.
The issue and laws and copyright around using other peoples candid shots I am not too sure of (other than the usual "whoever took it owns the copyright" - perhaps the site owner shoejack will know.
But in my opinion and whats good for the site, is - even if the legalities are OK - you are still basically using someone else's picture which to me is just wrong on any level, no matter how much you like it and want to share it here. Not only it is wrong, against the rules of the site but as I have previously said - its highly LAZY too.
Half the fun of this site is taking the pictures yourself to post. Even if these are candid pictures then so be it. I know Mr WAS! has taken candid pics on trains and the like - just last weekend in London.
There is also the issue of policing candid shots here. It's very hard to tell whether a candid shot was taken by the member, or they have stolen it from someone else. Pro internet pics you can spot 10 miles off, but candids are much harder. Therefor we have to trust that candids posted were taken by the member. Its mainly a trust thing here and is sad is people will willingly take advantage of that knowing that its hard to police. We want to make the site as good as it can be for members, so rules are on the site to protect the site - and to make it a more fun and enjoyable place for members to be - mainly because they can se pictures here they dont see anywhere else! And thats the important bit - if I wanted to look at lazy uninspired pictures taken by any random person than I, or any member can use any of the hundreds of search engines and find anything we want.
My advice - and in accordance with the site rules is that you MUST NOT post other peoples candid's you have found across the net, as it defeats the purpose of this site and is against the rules as it is not your picture.
Just get your own camera out - or most mobile phones have camera's now and take some candids yourself - its much more fun and what I think is most important if you have any sense of pride is the ability to know and say "yes, I (honestly) took that shot!"
regards
W.A.S.
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shoebusiness
Premium Member
Posts: 26 |
Tue, Aug 03, 2010 23:53:08
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If you look at my profile pictures you'll see that I do take my own candids and in-house shots. And as far as being "lazy"...I don't see that. If you happen to see a great picture(s) and would like to post them...that's not lazy...it just means you've never had the opportunity to get a similar shot. I for one get tired of these pathetic shots that fill the "sneaky shots" catagory. It would be nice to have some good quality candids in there for everyone to enjoy (and maybe teach some others what a real sneaky shot is). I just think it's a shame to not post pictures (that do not have copyrights reserved) simply because the member didn't take them. It would be one thing if the member was trying to take credit for the picture(s), but just posting incredible candids that are found, for others to enjoy, seems harmless to me. If it won't fly here, I guess I'll just continue to enjoy them myself....my apologies to those members that might enjoy them.
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what a shock!
Member Profile
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Wed, Aug 04, 2010 00:00:14
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I wasnt implying you were lazy. However it is lazy posting pictures you have found elsewhere when the purpose of this site is pictures members have taken themselves.
I understand what you are saying - I have seen some greta pictures across the net, pro, candid - the lot. I however just have to save them for personal viewing. I would love to post some for people to see, however that is not what this site is about.
If you do have such desire to do this then im sure there are sites which may allow it - or create a flickr page and you can put the link on your profile and you can put in your bio that you have some pictures of interest which have not been taken by you and you can find on this link etc...?
So there are ways to do - and I understand your thoughts, but this is strictly a members picture site only. Although there are still a fair few inappropriate images out there - we are still continually deleting offending profiles weekly.
Therefore we would ask current valued members to please adhere to the regulations and only post pictures taken by you personally please. After all, we are all here in accordance with the rules set out by shoejack - as listed on the home page
"NOTE: we only allow original amateur pictures taken by yourself, so don't expect to find webshots that can be found anywhere else."
We can only - or should only try to obey if we want to remain members.
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shoebusiness
Premium Member
Posts: 26 |
Wed, Aug 04, 2010 00:41:56 |
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Maybe it's time to look elsewhere then.
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what a shock!
Member Profile
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Wed, Aug 04, 2010 00:49:25
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If you are after looking at internet pictures you can find elsewhere - then perhaps thats what you need to do. But for the sake of a few internet shots you will miss many great member pics here - but of course the choice is always yours.
The site rules are at the top of the home page so if you did not agree with them, then why join in the first place?
You and your pictures will be missed if you decide to go - but then you can always do both. Stay here and be elsewhere for your internet pics?
Regards
W.A.S.
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shoebusiness
Premium Member
Posts: 26 |
Wed, Aug 04, 2010 01:23:45 |
As far as reading the rules, I can honestly say that when I "joined" the site, I didn't read them. It wasn't until I started seeing some of the forum threads that I was aware of the issue.
Kym and I both have been disappointed with the site lately. We both find that we get very little out of it these days. It seems like we encounter the same few people all the time, the catagories are all blending together, and now becoming aware of this restriction and the pleasure with which it is enforced...I think we will seriously be considering removing our profile and looking elsewhere.
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what a shock!
Member Profile
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Wed, Aug 04, 2010 01:30:14
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we will be sorry to lose any member. With regards to pleasure with which rules are enforced - no pleasure is gained from it I assure you. But it is too much for one man to do hence why a couple of us help him with the running of the site.
If you have been displeased with certain things then you can feel free to raise issues as many are discussed and put forward - some are implemented, some are not. However original pictures is not something open to discussion I am afraid.
Unfortunately, as with everything in life we can not please everyone all of the time. We have to do what is best for the majority of people, for the welfare of the site and its members.
We would also like to remind people that this site is a totally free site. The only money that is made is by those who contribute instead of uploading 20 pictures. There are a couple of other sites on the net which are free, but they are blogs and mainly text with pics embedded in threads thus making finding actual pictures harder than it needs to be. Therefore this site is a very unique and special place to be - especially as it is free. I am sure there may be many more out there where you may be able to post all the internet picures or other peoples candid pictures you wish, but they may very well be sites which you have to pay for.
It has been discussed here many times, when money becomes involved it takes away the sexiness as its about business and not the fetish. So I am sure you will agree, this site is a very special no cost place to be which is why it is hard to please everyone as it is not a site rolling in cash. We have to do the best we can with what we have. it is a place made up of, and improved by members and their suggestions. In which case, we will be very sorry to lose you, as we are when we lose any member through their choice.
If you wish you account to be closed, then please let Shoejack or myself know and we will action this for you. We hope you stay, but of course the choice is yours.
Regards
W.A.S.
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Dr Jones
Premium Member
Posts: 258 |
Wed, Aug 04, 2010 11:34:28 |
It's most unfortunate Shoebusiness feels that withdrawing from the site is the best option. (And clearly there are other reasons of dissatisfaction as well as pics).
Maybe Shoebusiness could consider taking a break from the site for a little while and try it again some time later. Just a thought!
In general, we are bound by the rules of the club we belong to (in this case it's a website). In my humble view, it's not realistic to belong to a 'club' that says, own photographs only, then complain that they can't post others' pictures.
I'm not trying to fall out with Shoebusiness, but it really does seem to me to be extremely straightforward. The site rules say own pics only, and that's that!
Just my $0.02
Dr J
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what a shock!
Member Profile
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Wed, Aug 04, 2010 11:44:51
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I understand the member states they did not read the rules of the site. However when you join you have to confirm your email account, and even is email clearly states this policy. Example below
Hello,
Thank you for your registration, and welcome to Hot Shoe Shots!
Please remember - your own original pictures only - no web shots / professional images.
Your profile will be deleted if it contains pictures that you have not taken yourself.
To complete the registration process please click on the link or visit this URL to confirm your email address:
http://www.hotshoeshots.com/home//
confirm/**************
Best regards
Shoejack
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riftzone
Member Profile
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Wed, Aug 04, 2010 20:06:35
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It's clear enough thats for sure, no matter what you think about web pics if you think they should be allowed or not it's simply the policy of this site that they are not.
So if you like them go see them on the web and re -create them yourselves and post your own version. Now that sounds a lot more fun than the argument of why they are not allowed.
RZ
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sluttyheels
Member Profile
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Fri, Aug 06, 2010 23:04:27 |
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what bothers me is this question in reverse... none of the pictures here are protected and can be copied and stored or posted on other sites without knowledge or consent... what can be done about that?
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what a shock!
Member Profile
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Fri, Aug 06, 2010 23:15:29
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You can watermark your pics etc. But then with Photoshop and the like these can be removed nowadays. Then you canals disable the right click function. But then mac users can get around that. Plus all the snag it software gets around it. Theres no way we can prevent out pics being taken really as far as I'm aware. There's always a way around it
On the flip side though, ours are not pro images thigh are they
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